Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 57

Thread: Just say no

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    40

    Default Just say no

    I just saw this special on steriods and the question popped into my brain...
    is the CIS doing enough?

    From the reports and press releases that I've seen very few people are either being caught or few are being tested on the other hand its possible that a lot are being tested and most are clean.

    Personally I believe that not enough is being done to combat steroids in sports in all leagues and at all levels. To my knowledge no High School leagues test, MLB is in shables over the situation, the NFL is shaky at best, cycling is a joke, and well dont get me started on the olympics. I also believe that testing should be mandatory for ALL players in ALL leagues. Football (or any other sports) should be about skill, determination and heart. No-one should be allowed a chance to take a short cut.

    So if anyone could clear things up as to who and how often players are tested in the CIS
    Never Quit

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Saskatoon
    Posts
    1,408

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bear_44 View Post
    I just saw this special on steriods and the question popped into my brain...
    is the CIS doing enough?

    From the reports and press releases that I've seen very few people are either being caught or few are being tested on the other hand its possible that a lot are being tested and most are clean.

    Personally I believe that not enough is being done to combat steroids in sports in all leagues and at all levels. To my knowledge no High School leagues test, MLB is in shables over the situation, the NFL is shaky at best, cycling is a joke, and well dont get me started on the olympics. I also believe that testing should be mandatory for ALL players in ALL leagues. Football (or any other sports) should be about skill, determination and heart. No-one should be allowed a chance to take a short cut.

    So if anyone could clear things up as to who and how often players are tested in the CIS
    I'm not sure any HS specifically test for steroids. But after one of my HS games, a couple of my teammates were ordered by the ref to go to the hospital for testing. I forget exactly why he wanted them tested, but in the end they came up clean. So they do test occassionally in Saskatoon.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    40

    Default

    wow that suprises me and makes me very happy
    For a long time I've known what steroids can do to your system and they are most dangerous durring the teen-age years. Thats a great sign and Im glad someone somewhere is taking initiative
    Never Quit

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Saskatoon
    Posts
    1,408

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bear_44 View Post
    wow that suprises me and makes me very happy
    For a long time I've known what steroids can do to your system and they are most dangerous durring the teen-age years. Thats a great sign and Im glad someone somewhere is taking initiative
    Seems to me if they didn't comply with the order from the ref, they could not play any SSSAD (Saskatoon HS) sports for the rest of the school year. Granted this is the only case I know of where this happened. But I'm sure it must occassionally happen.

    I do think the CIS does enough, though I haven't heard of a positive steroid test to come out of the CIS. A few players every year are caught with marijuana in their systems, but that is a little more disputable than getting caught with steroids. Basically, attending one major concert is likely enough to test positive for second-hand marijuana smoke.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,380

    Default

    There was one steroid suspension last year for football in the CIS, when a Bishop's player refused to be tested. He didn't test positive, he just refused the test. One can speculate why he didn't want to be tested, but he didn't test positive.

    As I understand it, there is a baseline random test that is performed on players as a minimum. The CIS has a mandatory requirement that all players receive an annual "drug talk". There can be targeted testing done with the random testing. A player is not informed if they are a random or a targeted test. As far as I know, targeted tests can be initiated in several ways, but basically, if the testing body is made aware of evidence that an athlete has been doping, the testing body can choose to add the athlete to the random testing group.

    I stand to be corrected on any of that, as I'm just going by what I can recall from skimming a few publications.

  6. #6

    Default

    I think it can go further than that CJ. If a player is suspect, a test may be requested. If a very trace amount is detected, a schedule may be setup for monitoring, either weekly, bi-weekly, monthly.

    I know for a fact that random testing has been going on in the CEGEP and CIS levels in the Q for several years now...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,342

    Default

    IMHO Steroid and doping testing is extremely, extremely lax in Canada, right from the CFL down. Anti-doping in Canada seems to be far too generalized a policy, and increased emphasis/testing is not given to sports where you would see the greatest results from using illegal performance enhancers - principally football, which is the sport most based around aggression/speed/power/endurance.

    The main problem with effective testing for football is most teams have rosters around 100 players, and only about half (sometimes more, sometimes less) are generally active during a season as starting/game impacting players.

    Generally; a team is randomly selected at a random point in the year, and then 5-6 players out of the entire roster of 100 or so are randomly selected.

    For targeted testing; I believe it is anonymous but the person/team who requests the test has to pay for it themselves.

    Most people think about the "The Program" when they think of steroid abuse in football...ie the linebacker shooting up during the season right before games and going into a psychotic rage.

    This is not usually the case though. It only takes a few months of usage to get significant size/strength/speed results from steroids, and once you have the gains, they can be maintained through normal workouts for months after the metabolites have cleared your system.

    The only way you would catch these players is if they're tested during the 2-3 months of the off-season they're actually doing a cycle or two. The odds of these players being selected RANDOMLY, at the RIGHT time during the year, are very, very, very low.

    Then even if they are caught, I believe the suspension right now is two years? with the chance to appeal after one year? I even know of a couple of instances where players suspended for steroids in Canada subsequently went and played in europe, successfully appealed after one season suspension, and returned to play in the CIS the next year

    Bottom line, the current system is not an effective deterrent in my eyes, and I think the number of players in the CIS abusing illegal substances would be shocking if money were actually put into widespread testing. I think this is one area that both the CIS and CFL really need to work on.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    53

    Default

    /\
    l
    I
    he's alive!?
    go X!!!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    36

    Default

    I know it's kind of off topic, but do we really need to test for weed? Last time I checked we live in Canada. How about we focus that money on testing for juice. If a guy wants to smoke a fatty and play, all the power to him...but we need to get our priorities in check..

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,342

    Default

    CJ makes very good points.

    Quote Originally Posted by BLING View Post
    I know it's kind of off topic, but do we really need to test for weed? Last time I checked we live in Canada. How about we focus that money on testing for juice. If a guy wants to smoke a fatty and play, all the power to him...but we need to get our priorities in check..
    I always sound like the hardass on this topic, and the thing is I know that the lectures probably encourages more people to smoke weed than deters them

    ...BUT...

    while weed is not a performance enhancing, it is still something you want to deter, particularly in young athletes. The effects of long term marijuana use are so subtle that most young people using them simply don't believe the arguments.

    Weed advocates always bring up the alcohol and cigarettes argument. And yes, there are some elements of hypocrisy to weed being illegal while alcohol and cigarettes not.

    But the main reason why weed is illegal and alcohol is not is the cumulative long term effects on productivity and development.

    The effects of marijuana accumulate over the years even when used in moderation. It remains in your system longer. Eventually you see blunting, apathy, paranoia, inability to concentrate and focus, loss of motivation and productivity. You don't get this

    Is that to say there aren't benefits too? not at all. Definitely can be used for medical purposes and even in specific religious settings.

    Weed is perfect the way it is right now. It's the rebellion drug. You can get busted for it if you're not careful, but the consequences generally aren't that severe. But it should never, ever become legal. Aside from losing half the appeal, the productivity in our country would drop. And just like weed, it wouldn't be that apparent at first. But the next generation down the line...

    I agree the emphasis to test for steroids in football should definitely take much higher priority, but the cost to test for weed and other drugs in addition to it is not that significant, and it's definitely something that should be discouraged in most cases.

  11. #11

    Default

    For those interested..........WADA has quite the extensive site on the subject.

    http://www.wada-ama.org/en/index.ch2

  12. #12

    Default

    Just so we are all clear on the subject. Here is the CIS policy on doping.

    Policies and Procedures
    90 – Conduct and Enforcement




    Policy Number: 90.20


    Name: Drug Education and Doping Control Policy

    Origin: Eligibility Committee


    Approved: January 2000

    Approval Process: General Assembly

    Revision Date(s): June 2002, June 2003, June 2004, January 2005, June 2005, June 2006



    90.20.1 POSITION STATEMENT

    90.20.1.1 Canadian Interuniversity Sport is unequivocally opposed to the use by athletes of any prohibited substances or methods in contravention of its rules and the rules of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) the Canadian Anti-Doping Program (CADP) and the Fédération internationale du sport universitaire.

    90.20.1.2 Canadian Interuniversity SportCIS is unequivocally opposed to any encouragement or assistance in the use of such prohibited substances and/or methods by individuals in positions of leadership in university sport (i.e. coaches, athletic staff, medical practitioners, sport scientists, administrators, etc.) or by the athletes themselves.

    90.20.2 OBJECTIVES OF THE PROGRAM

    90.20.2.1 To educate university athletes and coaching staffs of the hazards and consequences of the use of prohibited substances or methods in contravention of the CADP which is administered by the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport (CCES). The educational program will also include a discussion on ethics in sport.

    90.20.2.2 To establish a doping control program in accordance with the CADP.


    90.20.2.3 For a copy of the CADP please consult:

    i) www.cces.ca
    ii) Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport (CCES)
    Telephone: 613-521-3340
    Toll free (Canada only): 1-800-672-7775
    Fax: 613-521-3134

    Email: [email protected]
    90.20.3 DOPING CONTROL

    90.20.3.1 Scope of the Program

    90.20.3.1.1 Canadian Interuniversity SportCIS has adopted the CADP and accordingly the anti-doping rules and procedures contained in the CADP are the rules and procedures of CIS, except as modified in this Policy. In cooperation with the CCES, and in accordance with the CADP, CIS shall implement a doping control program in ALL sports run by CIS.


    90.20.3.1.2 CIS, through the administrative support of the CCES, will conduct unannounced “no notice” and “short notice” testing, as well as announced testing during competitions.

    90.20.3.2 Athlete Testing Pool

    90.20.3.2.1 Any athlete who is a member of a Sport Governing Body or Sport Organization, such as CIS, may be subject to doping control testing at any time.

    90.20.3.2.2 Once admitted to the Athlete Testing Pool, all athletes will remain in the Athlete Testing Pool for as long as they are a CIS athlete and for a period of eighteen (18) months thereafter, regardless of retirement.


    90.20.3.3 Athlete Selection

    90.20.3.3.1 Each athlete on a university team shall be required to sign the CIS Athlete Acknowledgement Form (Policy 40.30.3.1) which shall act as a consent form. By signing this form the athlete is indicating their understanding of the CIS Doping Control Policy and their willingness to participate in doping control, should he/she be selected for testing, for a period of 18 months as of the date of signing. The form must be signed before any doping control procedure is initiated. Failure to complete and sign the form shall result in the athlete’s ineligibility for participation in all CIS competition.

    90.20.3.3.2 Any CIS athlete may be selected at random or may be chosen for target testing. An athlete may be selected more than once in any calendar year. Target testing may be conducted at any time on either a short notice or no notice basis. Testing can take place in competition or out of competition (i.e. training, practice, etc.).

    90.20.3.4 Target Testing

    Target testing is one of the selection methods used by CIS and the CCES to enhance its doping control program. This method allows the CCES to focus testing on an athlete or group of athletes based on information received from a legitimate, identifiable source. This type of unannounced testing allows the CCES and CIS to act on information quickly to ensure that potentially problematic situations are appropriately dealt with.

    In order to carefully and confidentially review potential concerns of this nature, CIS, in accordance with CCES procedures, has established the following protocol for target testing.

    90.20.3.4.1 Protocol

    90.20.3.4.1.1 Individuals who have information that would strongly suggest that banned substances or methods are being used are asked to provide a letter, in confidence, to the CIS office, to the attention of the Director, Operations & Development. This letter should contain the following information;
    a) name of the athlete(s);
    b) sport;
    c) reason or rationale for concern;
    d) source of information;
    e) name and phone number of individual writing the letter; and
    f) other information as per specific circumstances.

    90.20.3.4.1.2 CIS shall forward the letter to the CCES including all necessary information required to conduct sample collection.

    90.20.3.4.1.3 The decision to proceed, or not, with the test and the subsequent coordination of sample collection will be carried out by the CCES independently of CIS.

    90.20.3.4.2 Confidentiality

    All parties involved in the process will be required to keep all information confidential.

    90.20.3.5 Athletes who are Required, Under Medical Supervision, to Use a Prohibited Substance
    90.20.3.5.1 CIS athletes need not apply for an Abbreviated Therapeutic Use Exemptionin advance of testing unless the athlete is also affiliated with another national sport organization. Should the athlete undergo testing and his/her sample return an adverse analytical finding for a substance subject to the ATUE process, the athlete will be advised of the adverse analytical finding and provided the opportunity to submit an ATUE to the CCES. Should the ATUE be complete and applicable for the substance for which the athlete produced an adverse analytical finding, the CCES will close the matter.
    90.20.3.5.2 All CIS athletes who require the use of a Prohibited Substance that is not subject to the Abbreviated TUE process and/or a Prohibited Method must apply to the CCES for a Standard TUE. Standard TUE applications should be made at the time the prohibited medication(s) is/are recommended to the athlete by the athlete's physician or at the latest 21 days prior to a competition.

    90.20.4 DETERMINATION OF ANTI-DOPING RULE VIOLATIONS

    90.20.4.1 All Anti-Doping Rule Violations shall be determined in accordance with the provisions of the CADP as it may be amended from time to time.


    90.20.5 PROVISIONAL SUSPENSIONS

    90.20.5.1 CIS, Regional Associations and CIS members have the power to provisionally suspend a student-athlete until the result of the Doping Tribunal hearing is known. If a provisional suspension is imposed, the timeframes for the Doping Tribunal hearing are accelerated.

    90.20.5.1.1 Factors to Consider regarding Provisional Suspensions


    The following factors shall be considered when determining whether or not to impose a provisional suspension:

    a) The timing of the alleged Anti-Doping Rule Violation and the timing of the Doping Tribunal hearing with regard to CIS Championships or FISU Games. CIS would be very inclined to impose a provisional suspension if the relevant Doping Tribunal hearing will occur shortly after or overlap with the timing of the CIS Championship or FISU Games the student-athlete might be involved in. CIS does not want the CIS Championships or FISU Games tainted with the participation of a student-athlete who, as a result of a positive test result, may be found at the Doping Tribunal hearing to have committed an Anti-Doping Rule Violation.

    b) The nature of the banned substance detected in the positive test result. CIS would be more inclined to impose a provisional suspension when, for example, steroids are detected in the sample.

    c) Whether there are other athletes who could take the place of the athlete with a positive test result..
    Last edited by JDM; 2007-04-13 at 18:55.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by professor x View Post

    while weed is not a performance enhancing
    I think this needs to be clarified to 'weed is not performance enhancing for football. It can be performance enhancing for some Olympic sports (shooting, etc). Since the CCES applies the Olympic/WADA standards for doping, weed is also banned.

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post
    I think this needs to be clarified to 'weed is not performance enhancing for football. It can be performance enhancing for some Olympic sports (shooting, etc). Since the CCES applies the Olympic/WADA standards for doping, weed is also banned.
    Well this is where most people get it wrong. Canabis is considered performance enhancing sine it does have the ability to numb pain. It also alters perception of limitations.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,319

    Default

    How about getting back to talking about God, country, family and loyalty to your school, team mates, your personal reputation etc. Where did all of that go? Maybe with more talk (& actions) like that some of this stuff would go away. Honour, honesty & loyalty are worth while values!! My Dad always said that "You come in to this world with one thing & you leave it with one thing - YOUR NAME!" Maybe Vince Lombardi, Knute Rockne, John Wooden & yes the late Don Loney were right...not maybe...they were. Let's get back to talking values.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,380

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bear_44 View Post
    I just saw this special on steriods and the question popped into my brain...
    is the CIS doing enough?
    By any chance, was it "The Man with Exploding Arms"? I've seen that one a few times on Discovery and it's some pretty powerful stuff. Should be required viewing.

    two four, I hear what you're saying, and I like the angle. I agree with you, that a focus has been lost on a lot of values held in high esteem by our forebears, but this thread is a necessary discussion on an issue that is casting its shadow over all of the CIS.

    When you have one football player who refuses to get tested, ALL football players end up wearing that. It goes to confirming the public perception that athletes at many levels use, and rightly or wrongly, the actions of one affect all.

    The measures in place right now are far too little to ensure that our athletes are not hurting themselves. Prof X did a good job of explaining that.

    Random testing is not a great answer. There are well over 2000 athletes in Canadian University Football alone. How many of them get tested in a year? Is it really effective?

    The requirement to pay has to be taken off the targeted testing. To prevent a flood of frivolous requests for targeted testing you can increase the weight of evidence required to initiate a targeted test.

    Do more of an awareness program than a once-a-year speech about drugs and drug testing.

    Most importantly, as Prof X mentioned, testing HAS to be carried out all year round, and should really become a regular part of the life of an athlete.

    At many universities today, when a student writes a paper, it gets put through an anti-plagiarism exercise. If plagiarism is found, a variety of consequences happen, up to being expelled from school. Why is that done? Because plagiarism exists. It's an easy way to get the paper done. Morals, values, religion, principles and speeches aren't going to help that. Imagine what would happen if a student told a professor "I don't want to submit my paper for plagiarism review".

    Why should drug testing be approached any differently? We don't want our players to harm themselves by taking steroids, correct? If a player is not juicing or taking any other illicit substances, they should have no problem with submitting to a random drug test, correct?

    The taboo has to be taken off drug testing, but not to the point where it becomes a witch hunt. Make it reasonable, make it responsible.

    I don't know how expensive it is to do this testing, but that's something that can be dealt with, whether it's by finding newer, cheaper methods for testing, or finding some sort of funding source, it's something that can be done with the right impetus.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cjstora View Post
    By any chance, was it "The Man with Exploding Arms"? I've seen that one a few times on Discovery and it's some pretty powerful stuff. Should be required viewing.


    Most importantly, as Prof X mentioned, testing HAS to be carried out all year round, and should really become a regular part of the life of an athlete.

    Why should drug testing be approached any differently? We don't want our players to harm themselves by taking steroids, correct? If a player is not juicing or taking any other illicit substances, they should have no problem with submitting to a random drug test, correct?

    The taboo has to be taken off drug testing, but not to the point where it becomes a witch hunt. Make it reasonable, make it responsible.

    I don't know how expensive it is to do this testing, but that's something that can be dealt with, whether it's by finding newer, cheaper methods for testing, or finding some sort of funding source, it's something that can be done with the right impetus.
    Yes it was the man with exploding arms, really eye opening stuff.
    Never Quit

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kincardine
    Posts
    4,290

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor X
    Then even if they are caught, I believe the suspension right now is two years? with the chance to appeal after one year? I even know of a couple of instances where players suspended for steroids in Canada subsequently went and played in europe, successfully appealed after one season suspension, and returned to play in the CIS the next year
    I know when Medler tested positive for Cocaine he was banned from CIS competition for 4 years. There was nothing about an appeal after 1 year or anything of the sorts. The only appeal there was, was the opportunity to ask that the B sample also be checked to ensure the accuracy of the result ie. (if for some reason sample A was believed to be tainted).

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,319

    Default

    I appreciate all of the comments on this subject. The reason for my semi-rant above was, as in most sport & our society today, a calling to all to set the bar higher...get back to the values that we believe in as Canadians...that our guys & girls are dying for...it IS amateur sport where minds can be shaped and values taught IMHO. Thanks for a well thought out exchange of thoughts on a very serious & in some cases, life threatening plague today!!!
    Last edited by two four; 2007-04-14 at 06:24.

  20. #20

    Default

    Of course you are right two-four. Today's players are too quick to choose the fast path. They want everything right now, the easiet way possible.

    The don't understand the reasoning behind personal pride in doing it the hard way. Or the natural euphoria of knowing they accomplished a feat by themselves without aid or assistance.

    That little button inside labelled "personal integrity" is stuck.

    Maybe it is too much pressure to succeed be applied from external sources......but most likely as you say, it is the failing of parents and society for not having instilled these traits during childhood.

    I take great pride in watching my son develop. Training 7 days a week in the offseason since he started CEGEP. It has taken him 7 years to do what some do in far less. But the internal strength it has given him to work hard for everything is what makes a man and you can see it in his eyes.........

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,319

    Default

    Thanks.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Ya two four I agree with you the points you made were the ones I was feeling but i lack the ability to express my self through the fomat of text
    Never Quit

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    4,958

    Default

    ah great, I go away for a little while and the weed debate returns! I don't think this one ever ended the last time it went around, people just kind of gave up in the end lol. For now anyways I'm staying out of it, as this is one debate that forever goes in circles....

    I played HS football with a couple players that were on steroids, only one of them went on to the CIS, played for 2 different programs as well. It's there, I guarantee you people are using it, and I'm not gonna say "every team can find at least one player that's using steroids", but I'm sure a lot of them have somebody, even if it's just a practice squad guy on their roster hoping to break it on the team. It's being used, and if the league wants to do something to stop it entirely, it has to be more than a talk!
    Take me home, country roads

    GO HAWKS GO!

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,486

    Default

    "The Man with Exploding Arms"?
    This was a pretty depressing documentary.
    "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." Sir Walter Raleigh

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,486

    Default

    JDM wrote:
    That little button inside labelled "personal integrity" is stuck.
    That little button is unfortunately one that is under used and under appreciated. One of the most important parts of the equation when it comes to steroids is the coaching staff. Who better knows the players at the elite levels of competition. Coaches know when there are changes in a players performance, size, appearance or behavior that are not within the 'norm'. This is when the random testing stops and the request for testing starts. Coaches can (and some do) identify the potential abusers.
    "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." Sir Walter Raleigh

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •